Joker (2019)

All non-Nolan related film, tv, and streaming discussions.
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Ozymandias wrote:
January 1st, 2020, 8:20 am
Vader182 wrote:
December 31st, 2019, 9:46 pm
like I said about it earlier this year, the most dangerous (and bad) thing about the movie isn't that it promotes an incel message, it obviously doesn't, it's that it doesn't have a message period.

instead, it recklessly and incoherently juggles half a dozen "hot button" issues and manages to do absolutely nothing with any of them. it's also narrow and literal where it sees itself as complex, deep and "abstract." I felt third party embarrassed for all involved. They're swimming in insane cash and will likely earn solid nominations, so good on them.

It's the worst movie I've seen from 2019.


-Vader
Even if you believe the film doesn't have a coherent message--the production value alone, the cinematography and the acting, are far better than so many films from 2019, and yet, you still say it is the worst movie you saw all year? Bewildering.
Yeah I didn’t care for it but it’s an hyperbolic Film Twitter hot take.

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Joined: August 2009
Ozymandias wrote:
January 1st, 2020, 8:20 am
Vader182 wrote:
December 31st, 2019, 9:46 pm
like I said about it earlier this year, the most dangerous (and bad) thing about the movie isn't that it promotes an incel message, it obviously doesn't, it's that it doesn't have a message period.

instead, it recklessly and incoherently juggles half a dozen "hot button" issues and manages to do absolutely nothing with any of them. it's also narrow and literal where it sees itself as complex, deep and "abstract." I felt third party embarrassed for all involved. They're swimming in insane cash and will likely earn solid nominations, so good on them.

It's the worst movie I've seen from 2019.


-Vader
Even if you believe the film doesn't have a coherent message--the production value alone, the cinematography and the acting, are far better than so many films from 2019, and yet, you still say it is the worst movie you saw all year? Bewildering.
Ozymamdias are you saying this objectively or subjectively?

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Joined: June 2010
Location: The White City
Ozymandias wrote:
January 1st, 2020, 8:20 am
Vader182 wrote:
December 31st, 2019, 9:46 pm
like I said about it earlier this year, the most dangerous (and bad) thing about the movie isn't that it promotes an incel message, it obviously doesn't, it's that it doesn't have a message period.

instead, it recklessly and incoherently juggles half a dozen "hot button" issues and manages to do absolutely nothing with any of them. it's also narrow and literal where it sees itself as complex, deep and "abstract." I felt third party embarrassed for all involved. They're swimming in insane cash and will likely earn solid nominations, so good on them.

It's the worst movie I've seen from 2019.


-Vader
Even if you believe the film doesn't have a coherent message--the production value alone, the cinematography and the acting, are far better than so many films from 2019, and yet, you still say it is the worst movie you saw all year? Bewildering.
If you wrap a turd in chocolate ganache, you’re still eating a turd.

I got more out of Velvet Buzzsaw, Gemini Man, Under the Silver Lake, my other “worst of” 2019.


-Vader

Posts: 4246
Joined: January 2012
Vader182 wrote:
January 1st, 2020, 2:41 pm
Ozymandias wrote:
January 1st, 2020, 8:20 am
Vader182 wrote:
December 31st, 2019, 9:46 pm
like I said about it earlier this year, the most dangerous (and bad) thing about the movie isn't that it promotes an incel message, it obviously doesn't, it's that it doesn't have a message period.

instead, it recklessly and incoherently juggles half a dozen "hot button" issues and manages to do absolutely nothing with any of them. it's also narrow and literal where it sees itself as complex, deep and "abstract." I felt third party embarrassed for all involved. They're swimming in insane cash and will likely earn solid nominations, so good on them.

It's the worst movie I've seen from 2019.


-Vader
Even if you believe the film doesn't have a coherent message--the production value alone, the cinematography and the acting, are far better than so many films from 2019, and yet, you still say it is the worst movie you saw all year? Bewildering.
If you wrap a turd in chocolate ganache, you’re still eating a turd.

I got more out of Velvet Buzzsaw, Gemini Man, Under the Silver Lake, my other “worst of” 2019.


-Vader
I mean the film's about how the main character cannot handle his everyday life in an alienated, capitalist society where people don't care about each other and certainly not about people with less power and wealth than themselves, which means that he essentially dies a death by a thousand cuts. Any one of the elements brought up in the film (emotional and other kinds of abuse, economic inequality, mental health, etc.) could be the focus of a film by itself but the point is not to point at a single element and say 'see if we only fixed this one part of the whole everything would be fine' because fixing one of these elements by itself is not sufficient to make that society structurally better and more empathetic. Doesn't need to be about one specific element when I took the film's point to be that all of it destroys him simultaneously with no easy solutions for his problems in sight, which is where he gets his nihilism from.

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Joined: August 2012
Batfan175 wrote:
January 1st, 2020, 4:25 pm
Vader182 wrote:
January 1st, 2020, 2:41 pm
Ozymandias wrote:
January 1st, 2020, 8:20 am


Even if you believe the film doesn't have a coherent message--the production value alone, the cinematography and the acting, are far better than so many films from 2019, and yet, you still say it is the worst movie you saw all year? Bewildering.
If you wrap a turd in chocolate ganache, you’re still eating a turd.

I got more out of Velvet Buzzsaw, Gemini Man, Under the Silver Lake, my other “worst of” 2019.


-Vader
I mean the film's about how the main character cannot handle his everyday life in an alienated, capitalist society where people don't care about each other and certainly not about people with less power and wealth than themselves, which means that he essentially dies a death by a thousand cuts. Any one of the elements brought up in the film (emotional and other kinds of abuse, economic inequality, mental health, etc.) could be the focus of a film by itself but the point is not to point at a single element and say 'see if we only fixed this one part of the whole everything would be fine' because fixing one of these elements by itself is not sufficient to make that society structurally better and more empathetic. Doesn't need to be about one specific element when I took the film's point to be that all of it destroys him simultaneously with no easy solutions for his problems in sight, which is where he gets his nihilism from.
did i miss the part where vader asked you what the movie was about or

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Joined: January 2012
Ruth wrote:
January 1st, 2020, 4:40 pm
Batfan175 wrote:
January 1st, 2020, 4:25 pm
Vader182 wrote:
January 1st, 2020, 2:41 pm


If you wrap a turd in chocolate ganache, you’re still eating a turd.

I got more out of Velvet Buzzsaw, Gemini Man, Under the Silver Lake, my other “worst of” 2019.


-Vader
I mean the film's about how the main character cannot handle his everyday life in an alienated, capitalist society where people don't care about each other and certainly not about people with less power and wealth than themselves, which means that he essentially dies a death by a thousand cuts. Any one of the elements brought up in the film (emotional and other kinds of abuse, economic inequality, mental health, etc.) could be the focus of a film by itself but the point is not to point at a single element and say 'see if we only fixed this one part of the whole everything would be fine' because fixing one of these elements by itself is not sufficient to make that society structurally better and more empathetic. Doesn't need to be about one specific element when I took the film's point to be that all of it destroys him simultaneously with no easy solutions for his problems in sight, which is where he gets his nihilism from.
did i miss the part where vader asked you what the movie was about or
He said that the film incoherently brought up a number of hot button issues and I essentially disagreed with that assessment. I assume it's still possible to engage with other people's comments on this website?

Posts: 12636
Joined: February 2011
Vader182 wrote:
January 1st, 2020, 2:41 pm

If you wrap a turd in chocolate ganache, you’re still eating a turd.


-Vader
Lol, so fucking true.

Posts: 42400
Joined: May 2010
Vader182 wrote:
January 1st, 2020, 2:41 pm
Ozymandias wrote:
January 1st, 2020, 8:20 am
Vader182 wrote:
December 31st, 2019, 9:46 pm
like I said about it earlier this year, the most dangerous (and bad) thing about the movie isn't that it promotes an incel message, it obviously doesn't, it's that it doesn't have a message period.

instead, it recklessly and incoherently juggles half a dozen "hot button" issues and manages to do absolutely nothing with any of them. it's also narrow and literal where it sees itself as complex, deep and "abstract." I felt third party embarrassed for all involved. They're swimming in insane cash and will likely earn solid nominations, so good on them.

It's the worst movie I've seen from 2019.


-Vader
Even if you believe the film doesn't have a coherent message--the production value alone, the cinematography and the acting, are far better than so many films from 2019, and yet, you still say it is the worst movie you saw all year? Bewildering.
If you wrap a turd in chocolate ganache, you’re still eating a turd.

I got more out of Velvet Buzzsaw, Gemini Man, Under the Silver Lake, my other “worst of” 2019.


-Vader
You don’t seem to watch many negatively reviewed movies in general though from what I can tell.

Posts: 4246
Joined: January 2012
Listening to the Two-Shot podcast by William Bibbiani and Witney Seibold taught me that I have been lucky to have avoided watching even close to the worst films of any given year. This film is not part of that group of films and people should most likely let go of the hyperbolic reactions surrounding this film that at worst is derivative of better Scorsese films.

Posts: 19083
Joined: June 2010
Location: The White City
I didn't say it was the worst movie of 2019, I said it was the worst I've seen.

It's really not worth diving into a deep conversation over an appallingly shallow movie.


-Vader

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