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Re: The Irishman (2019)

Posted: November 28th, 2019, 2:11 am
by spade
Vader182 wrote:
November 27th, 2019, 6:38 pm
The first half of The Irishman is "generic" on purpose. Scorsese retreads familiar territory, yes, but instead of treating the material with romance and sentiment, he treats it mostly as mundane, banal and a little pathetic.

You're not supposed to feel as electrified, or even as entertained, as you were by Goodfellas, Casino or Wolf. Goodfellas begins with zippy voiceover about wanting to be a gangster, The Irishman begins with a bitter old man. Goodfellas doesn't wait long to deploy a rivetting "oner" through the back of a restaurant, glorifying the exclusivity of "the life," The Irishman doesn't wait long to have a... slow road trip. From the start, Scorsese is demythifying the genre he, more or less, helped promote to the realm of myth.

The first half is an act of truthful retrospection before before Scorsese proverbially kneels for the introspective "confession," of the second half. This is exactly why you have to experience it all in one sitting.


-Vader
Absolutely correct. And the first half anyway keeps you completely hooked. Doesn't matter if Scorsese somewhat treads familiar territory, both stylistically and narratively, not because it's extremely well done, which it is, but also we can feel he is already saying something different from Goodfellas or Casino.

Re: The Irishman (2019)

Posted: November 28th, 2019, 8:14 am
by Robin
Vader182 wrote:
November 27th, 2019, 6:38 pm
The first half of The Irishman is "generic" on purpose. Scorsese retreads familiar territory, yes, but instead of treating the material with romance and sentiment, he treats it mostly as mundane, banal and a little pathetic.

You're not supposed to feel as electrified, or even as entertained, as you were by Goodfellas, Casino or Wolf. Goodfellas begins with zippy voiceover about wanting to be a gangster, The Irishman begins with a bitter old man. Goodfellas doesn't wait long to deploy a rivetting "oner" through the back of a restaurant, glorifying the exclusivity of "the life," The Irishman doesn't wait long to have a... slow road trip. From the start, Scorsese is demythifying the genre he, more or less, helped promote to the realm of myth.

The first half is an act of truthful retrospection before before Scorsese proverbially kneels for the introspective "confession," of the second half. This is exactly why you have to experience it all in one sitting.


-Vader
Of course the meandering narrative serves a purpose, that goes without saying.

However there is a more than a few of unnecessary (or even bad) scenes that could have been trimmed; the most egregious one
is the daughter spelling out her "subtextual" meaning (and fuction) in the narrative. Jikes.
Loved, loved the movie, but it sure could have been trimmed a bit.

Re: The Irishman (2019)

Posted: November 28th, 2019, 9:12 am
by spade
Robin wrote:
November 28th, 2019, 8:14 am
However there is a more than a few of unnecessary (or even bad) scenes that could have been trimmed; the most egregious one
is the daughter spelling out her "subtextual" meaning (and fuction) in the narrative. Jikes.
Two things. She is not "spelling" out her function.We are supposed to see and feel how Frank reacts when he is told what he is told. The purpose is never to hammer the theme 'he was never there for the family'. Secondly as an audience we are fully aware of Peggy's feelings towards her father. But this scene cements the fact that that's how all his daughters feel, not just Peggy. Frank thinks he has lost one, but in reality, all. Extremely important scene.

Re: The Irishman (2019)

Posted: November 28th, 2019, 11:42 am
by Robin
spade wrote:
November 28th, 2019, 9:12 am
Robin wrote:
November 28th, 2019, 8:14 am
However there is a more than a few of unnecessary (or even bad) scenes that could have been trimmed; the most egregious one
is the daughter spelling out her "subtextual" meaning (and fuction) in the narrative. Jikes.
Two things. She is not "spelling" out her function.We are supposed to see and feel how Frank reacts when he is told what he is told. The purpose is never to hammer the theme 'he was never there for the family'. Secondly as an audience we are fully aware of Peggy's feelings towards her father. But this scene cements the fact that that's how all his daughters feel, not just Peggy. Frank thinks he has lost one, but in reality, all. Extremely important scene.
She is spelling out her function, we already know she is different (normal) from her psychopath father, and is afraid/resentful of her dad and Russ from the many, MANY other scenes preceding it. This one was completely superfluous and aimed at the audience, because it also serves a plot function; telling us "why she gravitates to the more human character (Hoffa)" so that we "get" her rejection later on. Weak sauce from a master filmmaker.

Re: The Irishman (2019)

Posted: November 28th, 2019, 5:48 pm
by atilasantos
Such a masterpiece. I've been waiting so long for this one
Btw, what a great year for DeNiro: Joker and The Irishman
Top 5 best movies of 2019. Big time!

Re: The Irishman (2019)

Posted: November 28th, 2019, 7:19 pm
by ArmandFancypants
There are no peaks and troughs, the whole thing is consistently and organically amazing and the best film of the year.
Robin wrote:
November 28th, 2019, 11:42 am
spade wrote:
November 28th, 2019, 9:12 am
Robin wrote:
November 28th, 2019, 8:14 am
However there is a more than a few of unnecessary (or even bad) scenes that could have been trimmed; the most egregious one
is the daughter spelling out her "subtextual" meaning (and fuction) in the narrative. Jikes.
Two things. She is not "spelling" out her function.We are supposed to see and feel how Frank reacts when he is told what he is told. The purpose is never to hammer the theme 'he was never there for the family'. Secondly as an audience we are fully aware of Peggy's feelings towards her father. But this scene cements the fact that that's how all his daughters feel, not just Peggy. Frank thinks he has lost one, but in reality, all. Extremely important scene.
She is spelling out her function, we already know she is different (normal) from her psychopath father, and is afraid/resentful of her dad and Russ from the many, MANY other scenes preceding it. This one was completely superfluous and aimed at the audience, because it also serves a plot function; telling us "why she gravitates to the more human character (Hoffa)" so that we "get" her rejection later on. Weak sauce from a master filmmaker.
The scene ain't about what the daughter is doing.

Re: The Irishman (2019)

Posted: November 28th, 2019, 7:21 pm
by MyCocaine
Great film. Pacino should win an Oscar. Pesci is wonderful too.

I never felt the 3.5 hours runtime. Time seemed to fly by.

However, I'm much less inclined to call it a masterpiece.

Familiar territory all around. Prieto's work is so and so.

Re: The Irishman (2019)

Posted: November 28th, 2019, 11:46 pm
by Law
Just watched it again, the phone call scene is still just as heartbreaking as the first viewing.

Side note, I really like the editing in Scorcese's movies.

Re: The Irishman (2019)

Posted: November 29th, 2019, 4:11 am
by m4st4
Halfway through this and I believe in magic.

The flow is just insane, can't even see the stitches I swear to god this has to be how muggles feel right before getting struck by avada kedavra.

Re: The Irishman (2019)

Posted: November 29th, 2019, 9:17 am
by Allstar
Holy cow. Still marinating this epic. One thing is for sure, give Pesci all the awards. Probably his best work ever.